The Ending of Time: Where Philosophy and Physics Meet by J. Krishnamurti

Author:J. Krishnamurti [Krishnamurti, J.]
Language: eng
Format: epub
ISBN: 9780062360984
Google: sP1zAwAAQBAJ
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Publisher: HarperCollins
Published: 2014-09-27T00:00:00+00:00

Ten

Cosmic Order

7 JUNE 1980, BROCKWOOD PARK, HAMPSHIRE

JIDDU KRISHNAMURTI: We left off the other day by saying that when the mind is totally empty of all the things that thought has put there, then real meditation begins. But I would like to go more deeply into that matter, to go back a bit and find out if the mind, the brain, can ever be free from all illusion, any forms of deception. Also whether it can have its own order—an order not introduced by thought, effort, or any endeavour to put things in their proper place. And also, however much damaged the brain is by shock and all kinds of stimulation, whether it can heal itself completely.

So first let’s begin by asking if there is an order which is not made by man or by thought—which is not the result of calculated order out of disturbance, and therefore still part of the old conditioning.

DAVID BOHM: Are you referring to the mind? I mean you can say the order of nature exists on its own.

JK: The order of nature is order.

DB: Yes, it is not made by man.

JK: But I am not talking of such. I am not sure that it is that kind of order. Is there cosmic order?

DB: Well, that is still the same thing, in a sense, because the word “cosmos” means order, but the whole order, which includes the order of the universe and the order of the mind.

JK: Yes. What I am trying to find out is whether there is order which man can never possibly conceive? Because any concept is still within the pattern of thought.

DB: Well, how are we going to discuss it?

JK: I don’t know. I think we can. What is order?

NARAYAN: There is mathematical order, the highest kind of order known to any discipline.

JK: Would the mathematicians agree that mathematics is complete order?

N: Yes, mathematics itself is order.

DB: I think it depends on the mathematician. But there is a well-known mathematician called von Neumann who defined mathematics as the relationship of relationships. Really he meant, by relationship, order. It is order working within the field of order itself, rather than working on some object.

JK: Yes, that is what I am trying to get at.

DB: So the most creative mathematicians are having a perception of this, which may be called pure order; but of course it is limited, because it has to be expressed mathematically, in terms of formulae or equations.

JK: Of course. Is order part of disorder, as we know it?

DB: What we mean by disorder is another question. It is not possible to give a coherent definition of disorder, because it violates order. Anything that actually happens has an order, but you can call a certain thing disorder if you like.

JK: Are you saying that anything that happens is order?

DB: Has some order. If the body is not functioning rightly, even if cancer is growing, there is a certain order in the cancer cell; it is just growing according to a different pattern, which tends to break down the body.

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